Spike - After the Fall #3
Sep. 20th, 2008 03:39 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
roginSo, it's finally weekend, the time to watch tv, read fanfic and comics and do all the fangirly stuff!
The Supernatural kick off episode was awesome and I also watched and liked the first two episodes of True Blood.
And now thanks to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
killerweasel I could read the third part of Spike-ATF and give you my five cents on it:
My first impression is that they maybe overdid a teensy little bit with the fanservice in this issue. I mean, I'm a total sucker for half naked chained up Spike but for fans who are not, there might have been a bit much of it. Anyway I'm not going to complain about what lead to a bunch of gorgeous panels.
The comic starts of to Spike shopping with (I think) Fred in a blissful dreamsequence where Angel is a salesman wearing a tag reading "My name is the reason we ended up here". Hee.
Unfortunately it's just an escapist dream, since Spike has been enslaved by Non and her minions for a month now. Non seems to have a liking for toturing Spike,but he's not too impressed with it. After all he's really seen worse, so he compares her to Xander and makes fun of the fact, that she's dolled herself up for someone. And as it usually is with Spike and things that require soap opera intuition, he's perfectly right and Non heads off a little embarrassed, leaving Spike to Spider, who has far more reasonable plans with chained up Spike than torturing him.
I still don't particularly like or dislike her much (pretty much like Spike). She clearly likes him but is too much of a wimp to actually break him out on her own and Spike is mainly interested in getting free, so that he can go to save Fredlyria.
Non meanwhile has gone to visit Gunn. Ok, the idea that vampire Gunn is a bit of an attraction for evil demon ladies is kind of nice. He feeds her a slayer from his personal stock as an entree (I'll come to that later) and they talk a bit of evil overlord business.Non spills the beans about Spike and Illyria, but Gunn doesn't care as much as she would have liked, since he absolutely trusts in his visions and they say that Fredlyria has a bright future ahead anyway, while Non hasn't, so Gunn sends her off after showing a bit of muscle.
In related interesting news Spike doesn't make an appearance in Gunn's visions either and I very much hope that this is going to be good for a surprise in ATF.
Then Gunn goes to take on three slayers for aggression therapy. Ok, here is the one real massive problem I had with this issue and the whole slayer storyline. What the fuck is this with Gunn keeping the slayers like that?!? Slayers in the Buffy verse are not cannon fodder. Just no. They are not henchwomen, that get killed just for emphasis. They should be at all points a force to be reckoned with. And most important of all, they are not just empty Karate-dolls. They are the chosen ones, remember? While I'm perfectly ok with them getting defeated, mind controlled, killed or whatever , I find it horrible to use them just as totally faceless background cannonfodder without any personality. Each one of them is supposed to be a hero goddammit, so if they're killed off, they deserve to go with a story, not like that.
First time I really missed Joss in the book, because otherwise I like Brian's writing a lot.
Ok, on with the story. Spike's pretty broken about what happened to his flock but he hasn't time to argue with fate, because after Gunn's disappointing reaction to her news, Non decides to kill Spike and Illyria (and Spider for good measure). He gets dragged out to a chopping place (in again a very fanserving way *g*) by the future Spikettes.
Illyria finally has had it with Non, when she makes her kneel and turns to wipe the floor with her. Which is a good thing to Spike, unless she reverts to Fred at the most inappropriate moment. Here the scene gets a bit confusing for me. Spike worries, that Illyria will revert, when she sees a familiar face, but then he tries to free himself and calls out to her as Fred, like he wants her to change. Huh?
Illyria doesn't seem to care but is obviously a bit irked about the Spike/Spider thing, so she reclaims her pet in what is a seriously pretty comic book kiss. Squee.
Then Jerry is still alive. Again squee.
And on the final panel Connor shows up to save the day even more. Which means more future Connor/Spike dialog and thus a third squee.
I wonder about Illyria's thing for Spike: Maybe she didn't revert, because it's actually Illyria herself, who cares about Spike and not so much Fred. I wonder where this is going to lead in Angel- ATF.
So what did you think about the issue?
The Supernatural kick off episode was awesome and I also watched and liked the first two episodes of True Blood.
And now thanks to
killerweasel I could read the third part of Spike-ATF and give you my five cents on it:My first impression is that they maybe overdid a teensy little bit with the fanservice in this issue. I mean, I'm a total sucker for half naked chained up Spike but for fans who are not, there might have been a bit much of it. Anyway I'm not going to complain about what lead to a bunch of gorgeous panels.
The comic starts of to Spike shopping with (I think) Fred in a blissful dreamsequence where Angel is a salesman wearing a tag reading "My name is the reason we ended up here". Hee.
Unfortunately it's just an escapist dream, since Spike has been enslaved by Non and her minions for a month now. Non seems to have a liking for toturing Spike,but he's not too impressed with it. After all he's really seen worse, so he compares her to Xander and makes fun of the fact, that she's dolled herself up for someone. And as it usually is with Spike and things that require soap opera intuition, he's perfectly right and Non heads off a little embarrassed, leaving Spike to Spider, who has far more reasonable plans with chained up Spike than torturing him.
I still don't particularly like or dislike her much (pretty much like Spike). She clearly likes him but is too much of a wimp to actually break him out on her own and Spike is mainly interested in getting free, so that he can go to save Fredlyria.
Non meanwhile has gone to visit Gunn. Ok, the idea that vampire Gunn is a bit of an attraction for evil demon ladies is kind of nice. He feeds her a slayer from his personal stock as an entree (I'll come to that later) and they talk a bit of evil overlord business.Non spills the beans about Spike and Illyria, but Gunn doesn't care as much as she would have liked, since he absolutely trusts in his visions and they say that Fredlyria has a bright future ahead anyway, while Non hasn't, so Gunn sends her off after showing a bit of muscle.
In related interesting news Spike doesn't make an appearance in Gunn's visions either and I very much hope that this is going to be good for a surprise in ATF.
Then Gunn goes to take on three slayers for aggression therapy. Ok, here is the one real massive problem I had with this issue and the whole slayer storyline. What the fuck is this with Gunn keeping the slayers like that?!? Slayers in the Buffy verse are not cannon fodder. Just no. They are not henchwomen, that get killed just for emphasis. They should be at all points a force to be reckoned with. And most important of all, they are not just empty Karate-dolls. They are the chosen ones, remember? While I'm perfectly ok with them getting defeated, mind controlled, killed or whatever , I find it horrible to use them just as totally faceless background cannonfodder without any personality. Each one of them is supposed to be a hero goddammit, so if they're killed off, they deserve to go with a story, not like that.
First time I really missed Joss in the book, because otherwise I like Brian's writing a lot.
Ok, on with the story. Spike's pretty broken about what happened to his flock but he hasn't time to argue with fate, because after Gunn's disappointing reaction to her news, Non decides to kill Spike and Illyria (and Spider for good measure). He gets dragged out to a chopping place (in again a very fanserving way *g*) by the future Spikettes.
Illyria finally has had it with Non, when she makes her kneel and turns to wipe the floor with her. Which is a good thing to Spike, unless she reverts to Fred at the most inappropriate moment. Here the scene gets a bit confusing for me. Spike worries, that Illyria will revert, when she sees a familiar face, but then he tries to free himself and calls out to her as Fred, like he wants her to change. Huh?
Illyria doesn't seem to care but is obviously a bit irked about the Spike/Spider thing, so she reclaims her pet in what is a seriously pretty comic book kiss. Squee.
Then Jerry is still alive. Again squee.
And on the final panel Connor shows up to save the day even more. Which means more future Connor/Spike dialog and thus a third squee.
I wonder about Illyria's thing for Spike: Maybe she didn't revert, because it's actually Illyria herself, who cares about Spike and not so much Fred. I wonder where this is going to lead in Angel- ATF.
So what did you think about the issue?
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no subject
Date: 2008-09-20 05:06 pm (UTC)Sorry, I simply adored those scenes! *polishes her pervert club card*
"So if they're killed off, they deserve to go with a story, not like that."
I think there's more then to that element then meats the eye. Unless I'm reading it wrong it appears Gunn has a way of killing those women and bringing them back to life, which of course is going to need explaining somewhat. *g*
I simply adored this issue. In fact I think It in terms of art and writing it was the strongest and most enjoyable.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-20 05:32 pm (UTC)He can't help looking good in chains...the torn shirt...the half open jeans...yumm. I was certainly serviced fine here. *polishes own club card*
I just know, that would it have been girl that was dragged halve naked through most of the issue, I would have been a bit annoyed.
I decided I'll just gladly regard it as payback for all the breast enhancements in ATF.
I think there's more then to that element then meats the eye. Unless I'm reading it wrong it appears Gunn has a way of killing those women and bringing them back to life, which of course is going to need explaining somewhat. *g*
I seriously hope you're right and there is more to it.
I simply adored this issue. In fact I think It in terms of art and writing it was the strongest and most enjoyable.
It was a treat, wasn't it? Artwise, I think too that it was probably Urrus best so far, hes doing such a great job on Illyria lately, it's stunning how much he has improved.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-23 06:50 pm (UTC)I wonder about Illyria's thing for Spike: Maybe she didn't revert, because it's actually Illyria herself, who cares about Spike and not so much Fred. I wonder where this is going to lead in Angel- ATF.
Brian Lynch: Illyria thinks that THAT is the best way to insure that Spike fight alongside her. "You did that with them, you'll do it with me better", and Spike immediately tells her that it wasn't necessary, that he'd fight alongside her against just about anyone.
This in regards to the kiss. I don't know what to say about the Illyria/Fred reversals, because I'm still not convinced that what we're seeing is Fred, and not just Illyria acting like Fred.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-24 05:51 am (UTC)The cannon-fodder status of the Slayers was brought up on IDW, too, on which Brian commented with: "They're not stupid, there's a reason they're more easily defeated. It'll make sense as it goes on."
That sounds promising. I'm hoping for a good explanation, because that was the one thing that really irked me.
That Illyria would kiss Spike to bind him further to her would make sense (well, in a primordial way). I love how the way he sticks with her mirrors his relationship with Dru, when he was on the dark side.
You might be right and Fred is just a psychosis of Illyria given form.
I had this pet theory though, were everyone got something back when they were transferred to hell (Angel's prophecy, Gwen's powers, Connor's full memory...), so I figured maybe Fred was restored inside Illyria for the same reason.
Since we now know that these "gifts" came from W&H, it makes sense that they all weaken their receivers.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-25 03:44 pm (UTC)Oh, that's clever! Only problem with it is that Spike hasn't gotten any "gifts", as far as I can see... and no, the harem doesn't count. :P
About Spike calling Illyria "Fred" when he told her to stay back, I wonder if it isn't because he's only afraid of Fred getting hurt. Illyria can handle herself.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-25 07:18 pm (UTC)*g* Yep, Spike's the weak spot of the theory, the only explanation I have, is that Spike was never under a W&H contract, but then neither was Gwen.
About Spike calling Illyria "Fred" when he told her to stay back, I wonder if it isn't because he's only afraid of Fred getting hurt. Illyria can handle herself.
That could be the reason.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-23 08:42 pm (UTC)As to the slayers, I think in s8 the very mythology of the slayer has changed, and this is one of the consequences. I suppose it's the slayers who hadn't joined Buffy's organization.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-24 08:21 am (UTC)The whole army of slayers business did of course make them less unique. But on the whole I think in season 8 they still tried to make each of them special and when they die, there's still a little more too it (see the sidestory about the Buffy double, the death of the japanese spy and so on).
Here they are killed in bunches by a newbie vampire, to show how evil he is. But I'm told Brian said, that there's more to it than is visible at first sight, so I'm still hoping for a good explanation.
I agree,it would be weird if they were part of the slayer army and never mentioned in S8.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-24 08:31 am (UTC)[cynical mode]
Well, on BtVS vampires existed to push forward Slayer's journey, and on AtS and Spike comics slayers exist to push forward vampires' journeys.
Narrative is a bitch.
[/cynical]
no subject
Date: 2008-09-24 08:35 am (UTC)although I used to think of the slayers more as endbosses when things are told from the vamp perspective.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-24 08:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-24 09:11 am (UTC)It's when you play a computer game where you kill all the little monsters along the way and at the end of the level you usually have to fight some kind of bigger monster that's harder to bring down.
Like for Spike his slayers were all time special kills, not just everyday victims.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-24 09:14 am (UTC)I think that Spike had a romantic approach while Gunn is a practical no-nonsense guy. :)
no subject
Date: 2008-09-24 09:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-24 02:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-09-24 08:25 am (UTC)Maybe he tried to irritate Illyria by calling her Fred, so that she would cling on to make sure, she's the boss of the body. Or it could have been the dangerous situation.
Anyway, was a pretty neat issue, wasn't it?
no subject
Date: 2008-09-25 01:36 pm (UTC)On my first read I was wondering "how many slayers does he have to spare?" But looking with a little more attention I noticed that he has only 3 slayers: they are the same ones that Non had killed a little before.
Was I the only one that didn't notice it immediately?
I'm really curious to know what he did to them.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-25 07:25 pm (UTC)Thank you for pointing it out! And thus the scene gets from annoying to very intriguing.
Must be nice for a vampire (or the kind of life-sucker, Non is) to have an ever replenishing source of life force.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-25 01:53 pm (UTC)I was wondering why he was calling Illyria 'Fred' in that scene. In fact, I'm wondering so much that when I write my review on IDW I might mention it and see if Brian will respond.
I also hope that the fact Gunn's 'visions' didn't mention Spike mean that he will be important in some way in A:AtF after all. I'm a little tired of him always being an alsoran.
no subject
Date: 2008-09-25 07:30 pm (UTC)I was wondering why he was calling Illyria 'Fred' in that scene. In fact, I'm wondering so much that when I write my review on IDW I might mention it and see if Brian will respond.
I never manage to keep up with the boards, but I'd be very very interested in the answer.
I also hope that the fact Gunn's 'visions' didn't mention Spike mean that he will be important in some way in A:AtF after all.
That's my secret hope too. That he'll be able to pull something out of the left field, because all the visions and grand masterplans didn't really count him in.
I'm very much looking forward to reading your review.